>> Mike Huber: Hey, everyone, it's Mike Uber, founder and CEO of the Freshman Foundation. Every high school athlete gets excited about finally arriving on campus. Becoming a collegiate athlete is the ultimate reward for all the sacrifices you've made for 10 plus years to get to this point. However, ask any athlete what it was like to make the leap to collegiate athletics and they will tell you it is hard, and not only on the field. In private moments, high school student athletes might ask themselves, am I, truly ready to make the leap to college? The parents might ask, is my child truly ready to handle life on their own in college? It is absolutely normal to ask these questions. However, that doesn't make you feel any better if you don't have the answers. What if you had a playbook to help you answer these questions before you arrive on campus? The Freshman Foundation Digital Playbook helps high school athletes be ready to dominate the leap to collegiate athletics. The Freshman foundation is an interactive digital resource to help you prepare to answer the hard questions before you get to college. Your investment in the Freshman foundation playbook will help you avoid giving away your first year of college and will help your parents avoid losing sleep at night. Visit Michael V. Huber.com course to learn how you can be ready to dominate the leap to collegiate athletics. Now let's get on to the podcast.
>> Michael Hubert: Welcome to the Freshman Foundation Podcast, helping you make the jump from high school athletics to the collegiate level and beyond with your host, Michael Hubert.
>> Mike Huber: How did Natalie Haim navigate the transition to college athletics? Welcome to the Freshman Foundation Podcast where we help young athletes become confident problem solvers in sport and life. My guest in this episode is Natalie heim, a Division 1 swimmer and mental health counseling graduate student at Seton Hall University in South Orange, New Jersey. Natalie shares openly about the challenges that she faced in becoming a big time college student athlete. She discusses her experiences dealing with injuries, her recruiting process, mental health challenges, and transitioning through Covid. I'm excited for this conversation. Let's build your foundation with Natalie Heim. Hey, Natalie, how are you?
>> Natalie Heim: I'm good. How are you?
>> Mike Huber: I'm doing great. So Natalie, for those listening, is a student athlete at Seton Hall University. Ah, where she swims, and she's also entering her graduate program in mental health counseling. Is that correct?
>> Natalie Heim: Yes, that is correct.
>> Mike Huber: All right, so like, tell us a little bit more about yourself.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah, so I am a SE hall student. I've been for the last four years and I'm going into a graduate program, mental health counseling for the next two. So I'm really excited. I Was a social and behavioral sciences major with minors in psych and sociology. And I've been an athlete since I was 6 years old. So long time. So always a swimmer? yeah, yeah.
>> Mike Huber: And. And just to give a little bit more background, so Natalie and I got connected. She's helped me with some stuff professionally in my. In my practice, and given her background and some of her experiences, I thought it'd be a great conversation for us to have. So you mentioned you kind of started swimming around 6, is that right?
>> Natalie Heim: Yes, that's correct.
>> Mike Huber: Okay, so tell me about that. Like, when you started swimming, like, do you remember, like, what you liked about it?
>> Natalie Heim: So I started actually when I was three, but competitively when I was six.
>> Mike Huber: Okay.
>> Natalie Heim: I did, a summer league when I was, I think, three or four years old.
>> Mike Huber: Okay.
>> Natalie Heim: And then I started competitively because my summer league coach told my mom. She's like, you have to get her into swimming. She's really good. So I don't always, like, remember that young, but growing up, it was always a huge part of my life. my family, all of us are swimmers, besides my mom.
>> Mike Huber: Okay.
>> Natalie Heim: So is a huge talk in our house. yeah. I grew up swimming for the Same team since 6, 2. I think it was 18, so my whole life.
>> Mike Huber: All right.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: All right. So at what point did you start to realize, like, personally, like, hey, I'm pretty good at this.
>> Natalie Heim: That didn't come till I was probably in high school, I'd say. I had an injury, actually. I, tore my hip flexor. And I kind of, at that time was not fully enjoying swimming as a sport. I wasn't happy with it. I wasn't really. I didn't have a stroke that I was very good at. And then following that event, I kind of had to take time off from the sport, and I realized how much it meant to me. So then after that, I kind of started to become like a freestyler, and I got a lot better in the years probably between my freshman year and then my senior year of high school.
>> Mike Huber: Okay.
>> Natalie Heim: so that was kind of when it became a really important part of my life, and I knew that I wanted to continue it in college.
>> Mike Huber: Okay. How old were you when you tore your hip flexor?
>> Natalie Heim: I believe I was 12 or 13.
>> Mike Huber: Wow.
>> Natalie Heim: I used to be a brush stroker, so that was. My foot was kind of adjusted in a weird way. So then I ended up just. It was a. A micro tear, but it was still. It kept me out for a whole summer season.
>> Mike Huber: That's a pretty, pretty Rough muscle to. To tear, even if it's a small thing.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah, it was rough.
>> Mike Huber: Okay, so how long were you out at that point?
>> Natalie Heim: I think I was out for a whole season.
>> Mike Huber: Okay, so, like, how many months is.
>> Natalie Heim: That it was from. I'd say it was only the summer season, so it was probably April to almost August.
>> Mike Huber: Okay.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: So. But it sounds like, from what, the way you explained it, like, that time away made you realize how much you really liked to be a swimmer.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. Cause I realized, like, not having it every day, not going every day, and then watching all my friends still train.
>> Mike Huber: Okay.
>> Natalie Heim: It kind of put it in perspective to me how important it was in my life and how the kind of discipline and structure.
>> Mike Huber: Okay.
>> Natalie Heim: Kind of made me who I am.
>> Mike Huber: Okay. Yeah. We were kind of talking about this before we started recording. You know, that idea that if you don't have that sort of structure, sometimes it's hard to, like, be accountable. And that structure actually is really, desirable. It's actually something you crave.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. It was something that I really missed, and I can't even imagine now not having it. And I know when I graduate and I'm done with swimming, it's going to be quite the adjustment for me.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah.
>> Natalie Heim: But, I think it gave me a lot of good qualities of, like, dedication, time management that I wouldn't have gotten if I didn't continue the sport.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah, I will. We'll. I think we'll talk more about that as we move on here in terms of, like, what it might look like when you're done. which obviously is, you know, kind of a theme of this podcast is about transitions, whether it's from high school to college or college to out of your sport retirement. So we'll talk more about that. But, Okay. So, like, do you remember what changed after you came back from the injury in terms of the way you approached the sport?
>> Natalie Heim: I don't remember exactly what changed, but I had a very rough start getting back in. I remember I couldn't kick for a while. I had to use a pull buoy, which is something you put in between your legs to make you float. Yeah. And so it was quite the adjustment. I had to be really careful with how I was pushing off the wall. I couldn't dive off the blocks for a little while. so I kind of worked more technically on my stroke and focused on that. And then everything else kind of came after that.
>> Mike Huber: Okay, but, like, was your. Did your motivation change, like, as you're going through sort of those. It sounded like you had to be really patient in terms of coming back and recovering and sort of building yourself back up. Did you feel like you had that, like, extra. You had extra. More motivation to go and, like, approach it in terms of getting back into it, rather than feeling like, oh, I'm frustrated because this isn't going as fast as I wanted to.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah, definitely. Because I definitely took, the sport for granted before the injury. and when I came back, I kind of. It did put it in perspective for me that, like, I'm not going to have this forever. And I realized that in order to enjoy what I'm doing and have that, like, excitement in the sport, I'm going to have to be motivated to continue it. Because you don't want to just show up and just be there. You have to show up and do everything that you're supposed to and want to be there, because that's going to make the experience more fun.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah, but I think the injury, and it's not something I think we've talked about up until this point, but I think injuries. Athletes immediately assume injuries are a bad thing.
>> Natalie Heim: Right.
>> Mike Huber: When you're going through it. But there's a lot of good that can come out of being injured. I think a lot of times, especially if it's not something that's career ending. Right.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: Learning how to be resilient, learning how to work on things away from your sport that you wouldn't otherwise prioritize because you're away from it, but also, like, getting that love back of be like, oh, my God, I missed this.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: Like, now I want to go back and really rededicate myself because now I see the other side of it. Like, I, don't know what I would do without it. Right. Sometimes we just take it for granted and we just keep going and we don't realize how, like, important it is to us until we actually stop.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. And I feel like a lot of athletes also kind of reach a point of burnout at least once in their career. For me, it's happened maybe twice, actually. So, it's definitely difficult when you kind of don't want to show up and you don't want to be there, but kind of having that mental toughness to show up and say, I, I belong here, I want to be here. I can be resilient in this situation. That was something that was so helpful for me after that.
>> Mike Huber: So at what points did you ever. Did you feel burnt out or have.
>> Natalie Heim: You felt burnt out after? I mean, before that injury? Definitely I was Burnt out. And I was young, so I didn't know that was burnt out at the time, but I wasn't enjoying what I was doing at all. And then in college, I'd say I was also injured last year, last semester, I had a back injury and I came off of a really good season my junior year. And then coming into the next year, I wasn't in the shape that I needed to be to do the same thing that I did the year prior. And that became something that was very tough for me. Cause I wasn't really enjoying what I was doing anymore. I didn't feel like I was getting like the proper, I guess, training. Not, not proper training. Cause I was receiving good training, but it was more or less I wasn't putting in the effort I needed to because I wasn't really mentally there, if that makes sense.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah, it does make sense. And. And I can't even imagine, because I've never been a competitive swimmer. I mean, the amount of discipline that's required to like consistently over. I mean, in your case, from the time you were 6, generally, until now, which you're 23, 22.
>> Natalie Heim: I'm 22, yeah.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah. So 16 years of that, more or less straight through like every single day, getting up at 5am to get into the pool and sometimes twice a day and all these other things that you do. Like, it does take a lot of discipline. I can't imagine that there aren't times where you, you don't question like, hey, what am I doing here?
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. And then when you're also surrounded by some people who kind of have that same mindset of I don't want to be here, I don't want to do this. It makes it a lot easier for you to also say the same thing, which. It stinks. But it happens a lot on a team environment.
>> Mike Huber: Absolutely. Yeah. We could talk more about that. I wasn't planning on going there, but I really. Actually a really important conversation to have. Ah. Because, you know, it's something I talk about in my own work, you know, with when I'm working with athletes and you know, individually is like, you know, you don't control the people around you.
>> Natalie Heim: Hm.
>> Mike Huber: But they can certainly influence the way you look at your sport and that can affect your performance. So how can you create the conditions, the, kind of bubble around yourself to not let that seep in as much so that you don't get poisoned by it? Yeah, because it can.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: Very, very easily.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: Happened very easily. so at what point did you Start thinking about swimming in college.
>> Natalie Heim: I remember, I don't know what year I made this cut, but it was probably my sophomore, maybe junior year of high school. I was going for a national cut, which is basically the highest, level that you can get or one of the highest levels that you can get in YMCA swimming. And I remember my dad was at the meet that I made the cut at and he was like, if you go this time, I think he had like some sort of ring on his finger. And he was like, I won't take this off unless until you go that time. And then I swam and I went that time immediately. And that was when I kind of realized that like I had potential to take that somewhere and use that as a career in college. because it was the first time I kind of had a moment where I realized that I'm in a place that I can, I guess, be. I don't know the word for it, like be better than some other people, but not in like a rude way. Just, I don't.
>> Mike Huber: Wait.
>> Natalie Heim: I feel like I'm stuttering a little bit now.
>> Mike Huber: You gotta keep going.
>> Natalie Heim: I just feel like that moment, my dad seeing him so proud too, was I wanted to continue doing that because I felt like it made me happy and then it made also others happy and I, it meant something to us.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah, yeah. But there's a lot, and I think, you know, it's. You preface it as like, it's not in a rude way. Like we get our motivation from competing with other people, at least on some level. Right. Like some of it's internal. It has to be. Right. If it's not completely, if it's, if there's not some level of internal motivation, you're going to burn out.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: Because now you're, you're trying to get all of your motivation from the outside, which you don't have any control over. But at the same time, as a high level athlete. Right. We get our motivation from the environment. People around us, am I swimming better than this person? I'm competing against them. They're giving me the, the will and desire to push harder. And now I'm getting a result that makes me feel good. I don't get the feedback. It's really hard to keep going unless I love something so much that I don't need any of it. Right. So like, it's not something necessarily to like, I don't say feel bad about, but like, almost like to have to like caveat it.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. And I think that was a large part for me was I wanted to always. I still always want to make my parents proud because they did everything for me when I was younger and they still do everything for me now. So that kind of moment was similar to just the overall high school experience as well. It almost like the sport kind of gave me a promise of validation, almost for that feeling of happiness and that feeling of being the big fish instead of the small fish, because I was always the small fish growing up. So I feel like that promise of validation of the happiness and the excitement was what drove me.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah, yeah. Especially when, I mean, you know, you could say small fish, you could say kind of average size fish, but, yeah, like, you put in all that work eventually, like, if you get to the place where you're the bigger fish, going to feel good.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah, right.
>> Mike Huber: Like, just to sort of support the idea that I put in all this work for a reason versus, like, why. Why am I doing it?
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah, right.
>> Mike Huber: And so, like, at what point did you start to get recruited off of that?
>> Natalie Heim: I think it was my. It must have been my junior year, because swimming, we only are allowed to start our junior year, of the recruiting process. And I remember my junior year in the summer, my team had won nationals, and that was when everyone kind of started reaching out. And then I started going on visit. And I wasn't satisfied with most of the visits just because I, knew I was going to be kind of really small fish in their pond. Like, in college swimming, if you aren't the best at the bigger schools or you're training for the Olympics, like, you don't get that kind of shot at, greatness, basically because you're kind of left on the back burner. So I. With Seton Hall, I kind of felt like I was going to be in an environment where I can continue growing as an athlete.
>> Mike Huber: Okay. So, like, without, you know, without getting too detailed or naming names, if you don't want to. Like, like, what were some of the alternatives? The bigger alternatives? Like, what conferences were you looking at?
>> Natalie Heim: Big 10, was majority of the schools I looked at. And, you know, that's Penn State, Michigan. So all those schools are kind of the schools that train, like, possible Olympians or like, kind of that stuff. So I wasn't. I knew I wasn't going to get to that level at that point in time, at least. I didn't think I would. maybe ncaas, but I just knew that I would kind of struggle there mentally, but also physically to. I don't think I would struggle to keep up, but I Think I would struggle with the adjustment of kind of being the small fish.
>> Mike Huber: Okay, well, what were some of the other things outside of swimming that you were looking for in a college at the time?
>> Natalie Heim: I was looking for a team that I can bond with because that was the most important part to me. I went to a lot of the schools that I was visiting, and a lot of the schools had teams that were very disjointed and they kind of seemed separated, clicky. And I did not want that because I feel like when you train, especially as a swimmer with a team that's disjointed, it's very hard to keep yourself wanting to go every day. And I wanted a group of friends instead of just teammates. Like, I wanted to be close with everyone and because that would make the team easier to succeed or have an easier time succeeding. And that was definitely a huge part of what made my decision.
>> Mike Huber: Okay, so how did you figure that out? Right. Obviously you're going into the recruiting process like you're getting only a certain amount of information, right?
>> Natalie Heim: Like.
>> Mike Huber: The coaching staff's trying to obviously encourage you to come there. You're going on visits, you're meeting some of maybe your fellow recruits, but you don't have complete information at that point. So, like, what. What gave you the sense that Seton hall would be the place that would sort of give you that feeling?
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah, you can just tell when you go to a school. because we go on. Well, back then we would go on recruiting trips for two days, so I'd spend a lot of time with the team. And you can kind of tell when everyone's friends. I mean, not everyone's always going to be friends, but you can tell when everyone gets along or if they don't. and I feel like a lot of the bigger schools, it just, they felt like they didn't want us there sometimes. And at Seon hall, you felt wanted. You felt like everyone was excited to have you there. And that was like, really important to me because you can see that that would. How that would be how it was going to be for the rest of your four years.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah. That's great. Yeah. And I guess you're right. Like anything else, right, you got to trust your instincts.
>> Mike Huber: Sometimes. So when did you. At what point did you commit?
>> Natalie Heim: I committed in October. It was like end of October of your senior year. Yes. And it's funny because Seton hall was not my first choice at all. My mom actually made me look there and she was like, you have to go. It's close to home. Just look. And I was like, I, know I'm going four hours away. I'm not going to be any closer than that. And then I went there for the visit, and I loved it. And I was not expecting that, but it was a pleasant surprise. And then when I came home, I think I committed, like, three days after visiting, or it was. It was very short after.
>> Mike Huber: Sure. That's such a mom thing to say.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: Well, I'm actually kind of surprised that you, like, didn't, like, stubbornly resist it just because she suggested it. Right.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. No, my mom and I are very close, so it definitely wasn't because of that. I just. I. For some reason I thought. I feel like everyone always thinks they want to be far from home and. Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: Ah.
>> Natalie Heim: But it was definitely a blessing that I did choose the school because I love being home. I'm a homebody. I'm very close with my family, so it was a good choice.
>> Mike Huber: Awesome. So you commit in October of your senior year, and then. So you're there. You started in August, of the following year. So less than a year later, what was the biggest eye opener for you when you got onto campus?
>> Natalie Heim: Well, that was Covid time, so.
>> Mike Huber: Okay.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. So everything was very eye opening because before that, we kind of just were stuck inside. I didn't have school, didn't have anything. We were wearing masks all the time. So I think at that time, it was very shocking to me to see not many people were on campus. so we were kind of just. It was mainly athletes walking all over campus. So that was definitely eye opening for me because I felt like we were the only ones who were there.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah.
>> Natalie Heim: And we needed to be there all the time, so that was definitely interesting.
>> Mike Huber: Were you getting tested a lot?
>> Natalie Heim: Yes, we were getting tested, I think once a week. Maybe it wasn't that often, but we definitely got tested every now and again. Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah. Because I. I've talked to other collegiate athletes at that point who were sort of in the same bucket as you, and I heard that they were, like, getting tested all the time, and they were the only ones that were literally on campus. Like, only athletes.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah, that's what it seemed like. I mean, we have a lot of commuters, but it seemed like we were the only ones there. We couldn't even use our locker rooms because they didn't want us being too close to each other. we had to go to class in our suits. We would be the only ones sitting in the classroom because everyone else would be Virtual.
>> Mike Huber: So bizarre.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah, it was weird.
>> Mike Huber: So, like, how do you think that affected you athletically? Like, how did it affect your development? Or did it.
>> Natalie Heim: I had a pretty good freshman season. However, we only had one dual meat and then Big east, so we didn't really have much to base it off of. I think our training wise, we were doing a lot less yardage than we do now. So we were also. I believe we were practicing once a day. We weren't doing doubles, so definitely decreased workload a lot. and I feel like we just couldn't do more because there was no way that we could be in. We had to be in pods. We had to only have a certain amount of us in a lane, so we definitely had to decrease a lot of the workload. but then I did somehow have a good Big east meet. I think I dropped, like, a lot of time in my 200 free that year, which was very shocking because 200 free was not my event freshman year. Yeah. So I don't. It didn't really affect my training. I think I could have probably done a lot better if we had more under our belt, but I think I still did well.
>> Mike Huber: And so, I mean, I didn't really think about the COVID part of it. although I'm sure we've talked about it before. So, like, were there bigger challenges academically and socially then?
>> Natalie Heim: Socially, for sure.
>> Mike Huber: Okay.
>> Natalie Heim: I spent all my time with my teammates my freshman class. we didn't really have many options because there was no one on campus besides us, and we didn't really venture out to meet other athletes because you meet them in social settings, and we just didn't really have social settings to meet them at. And athletics pushed and pushed for us to be separated. Even, from my teammates. They wanted us to never see each other. Like, it was. It was tough. So I think socially I didn't give myself the opportunity to kind of branch out, which was not ideal at that time because I'm a pretty shy person. So I wish I would have had that chance, but definitely made it hard.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah. But you're kind of. You're kind of forced to. Right?
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: And. And I think, you know, as an athlete actually in some ways. Right. Like, if you were just a. A, non athlete coming in as a freshman during COVID it's probably even way worse because you don't even have teammates. Right. Like, you don't even need to be on campus. Like, you're missing that whole first year versus at least I'm there with people.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. Right.
>> Mike Huber: Like, it's a small group. It's different than I expected. But at least we have this group of people we can stay connected to versus, like now I'm going to college and I can't even go to college because they're not letting me go.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. And we tried our best to make the most of it. Like, we would all hang out in the dorms, but we weren't supposed to, but we did. And then like the senior class, I didn't. I didn't know them for half of the year, which was crazy because they're on my team. I didn't see them. I didn't see them. We didn't have meets to go to. we weren't lifting together. So that was definitely interesting because I didn't meet them until I was probably halfway through the season.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah. So when things started to go back to normal. Right. We could sort of argue what that means. But generally speaking. Right. When things started to go back to what you would have expected to be when before COVID how did that change your experience as an athlete? Did it like, make it better or did it make it harder or.
>> Natalie Heim: I think it made it better, but it was a lot harder because, we were went from training once a day. I don't even know if we would probably go for like an hour and a half. I don't think we'd ever do two hours to going, six days a week. three of those days would be doubles. So two practices, then lifts on top of those two practices. And then Tuesdays and Thursdays we would also do like two hour practices. So that was definitely an adjustment because I wasn't used to the doubles of high school. I only did them for a week during Christmas. So it wasn't something that I was used to doing all week. So I think it was definitely an adjustment increasing that workload after the freshman year. Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: So did that increase in volume? Did that. I mean, I don't even know if this matters. I'm just curious, did that increase in volume lead to any sort of physical consequences? Meaning, like, was it harder on your body, did you get injured? Or like, did you adjust to it pretty well?
>> Natalie Heim: I guess I adjusted to it pretty well. I think I had a harder time adjusting with it. I didn't do as well my sophomore year college. so I think that maybe I was struggling with balancing everything. And then also because I was having a very tough time in school as well. but I think I didn't balance everything well. So then I kind of Wasn't prepared for our final meets.
>> Mike Huber: Okay, so, how did you. I know this is kind of a big question, but, like, how did you ultimately figure how to balance? Or how did you figure it out where you started to be like, okay, like, school's really hard now. I got more volume. This is really hard. Like, how did you sort of work through that to figure out, this is how I need to handle it to get the most out of it?
>> Natalie Heim: It. Yeah. So I actually, I had a lot of experiences with mental health throughout my career, but I, sophomore year, had gone through the kind of mind body disconnect that we saw Simone Biles go through. And gymnastics is a little. A little different because it's. They call it the twisties, I think. but for me, it was. For some reason, my brain was not wanting to do what my body was doing, or my body wasn't doing what my brain was telling it to do. So I was actually in a point where I just didn't know how to explain it. And I would tell people and they would kind of be like, that doesn't make sense. But it didn't make sense to me either. So I had gone to our sports psychologist, group on campus, and I was kind of reluctant to it a little bit because, you know, you never want to ask for that help. But I did end up asking for it, and I had a sports psychologist who kind of taught me little tricks, so mindfulness. She kind of told me, when you're brushing your teeth, just think about the motion of brushing your teeth. And it sounds silly, but it was something that stuck with me for the rest of my. Like, I still think about it today.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah, sure.
>> Natalie Heim: So kind of being mindful of, like, what you're doing. And then I kind of found out ways to kind of cope with, like, if I were to experience that again or if I, was anxious about a meet. and she definitely helped me figure that out a little bit better than I was doing on my own.
>> Mike Huber: Well, first of all, I appreciate you sharing that. And second of all, I think it is hard to ask for help. And I think the fact that you did it is great. Right, because you probably were able to work through it a lot more efficiently and, effectively than if you tried to solve that problem on your own. And that's something that, you know, I'm big on, is being able to find the resources that you need and then ask for help. But the mind body disconnect part, like, give me an example. Or like, what, like, what was happening? Like, what can you explain that in a little bit more detail, like from a swimming perspective, like, what was happening?
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. So it's kind of difficult to explain because a lot of people don't understand it. But I remember I was showing up to practice and I just felt like my flip turns were not working. Like they just didn't feel right. And then I remember being scared to dive off the blocks because I was worried that it wouldn't, like I would hurt myself or I'd not dive in correctly. It was just little swimming techniques that just didn't feel like they were working. And my brain was saying, do what you're supposed to. You know how to do this. And then I felt like a five year old who just learned how to swim. And my stroke was like, lopsided, and my turns were like too over rotated. It just was small, things like that.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah. So I don't know if you recall, but was it something that, like, happened gradually or progressively, or was it something that was sudden that you just sort of like woke up one day and was like, what's going on here?
>> Natalie Heim: It was sudden. I remember I, I had a very tough school year, as I said before, sophomore year, because I was in a lot of very tough classes. And I just remember I wasn't doing well mentally at that time. I just was not happy and very stressed and not sleeping. and I just remember one day I went to practice and I tried to figure out what it was, and then I took like a day. And then I decided to talk to my coach about, and they were like, I don't know what that means. And then I was like, oh, great. Nobody knows what this means.
>> Mike Huber: Scary.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah, it was very scary because I. I had never been scared to do anything in swimming.
>> Mike Huber: It's.
>> Natalie Heim: I'm. It's not something I'm not scared person for, like athletics, but I, just was scared to swim every day, which is weird because you can't really get hurt in swimming. But I just. I don't know, it was just a different feeling.
>> Mike Huber: Uh-huh. So how did practicing mindfulness help you make those adjustments in the pool? Like, what was it about the practice that allowed you to kind of work through it?
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah, so my coaches knew, but I was. I mean, I had told them, but after she had told me that, I kind of. It didn't immediately just end. I just felt it that way for a little while. I think it took, like, probably two weeks for me to kind of get over it. And I remember just I would show up to Practice, and they would ask me how I was doing, and I would tell them, I'm still kind of feeling a little bit lopsided. and I kind of would just focus on the motion of my arm, in freestyle, specifically, going into the water and catching and then pulling and circling around.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah.
>> Natalie Heim: And then my breathing, I would kind of just focus on, like, how many breaths I would take in the lap or how many strokes I would take before breathing. And then just the flip, rotating, like, everything. Just very technical.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah.
>> Natalie Heim: I just focused on more, and my coaches knew that I was going through that, so they were on board with it.
>> Mike Huber: That's great.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. So I wasn't doing, like, speed work. I was just more focused on.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah.
>> Natalie Heim: Technique.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah. Like, when you use the example of brushing your teeth. Right. When you're brushing your teeth, you're usually thinking about 12 other things.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: Thinking about brushing your teeth. And so when you're really mindful when you're brushing your teeth, like you said, like, you're really focused on those little things that you usually ignore. You're very present to it. Right. Sort of what you're explaining in the water is, like, you're shifting your focus to the process.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: How does it feel to actually do this when maybe I'm thinking about the result of, well, what. What happens if I dive into the water or what happens if I do this? Now I'm thinking into the future and I'm disconnected from my process, from, like, really, like, recognizing my body.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: Being able to come into that and really get back into that present moment. Awareness takes the focus off of the bad things that can happen. Now you're sort of reconnecting with your body in the process. And that's great that your coaches supported that because they could have very easily said, like, no, swim faster. Right. And so, like, now you're taking all that focus off of how do I just, you know, put my body. Move my body through the water and onto, like, oh, no, I got to swim faster. And now I'm going back into that focus of, oh, I need a. I need a better result. Result, or else that's going to probably result in that disconnect coming back, Right?
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was something I couldn't understand at first because it's like second nature for me at this point to just do, like, every stroke, swim the way I've been swimming since I was little. but then it kind of became not second nature, so then I had to kind of almost take baby steps back and just focus on things that I would have focused on when I was very young instead. And just like the technical motion of, like, swimming.
>> Mike Huber: Do you still practice mindfulness now?
>> Natalie Heim: I do. I think after hearing that from the sports psychologist, I. It became something that kind of stuck in my brain. And I still. I tell my teammates about it, too. I tell anyone who's, like, willing to listen about it because it's something that people think is so silly. But it works. It works 100% if you practice. And it's. Even now, I still get anxious. I still get, like, nervous about certain things. I'll just take a moment back and work on that, basically. And it always works for me.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah. Well, it's good to know. And I think it's interesting, right? Like, we still live in a world where people like, that sounds silly.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: But if it works for you, it is a practice. And the more you do it and the more you have that to go back to, to, like, just the practice of breathing. Right. You said, like, focusing on your breathing. Like, it's really hard to be distracted by things that are outside of your control when you're just focused on your breathing. So the fact that you're continuing to practice it is great. Right. Because we all get anxious.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: All get stressed out. We all start to worry about the future or we think about the past. Like, how do we come back to the present moment? Well, there's really no better way than just focusing on, like, hey, I'm right here. Right now. I'm breathing.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: so, like, looking back now, like, as you sort of progressed through college, and now you're going into graduate school your fifth year, like, what skills do you wish you had known or had under your belt coming into college that you didn't have?
>> Natalie Heim: I think something that I wish I did have going into college was, as I said, like, a little earlier on, I was kind of a big, fish in a little pond. Because you trained with people you swam with your whole life. they were your town, just, like, very. You grew up with these people. And then I didn't realize how different it is swimming with people who are from different countries, different states, came from different training regimen. And I don't think I was prepared for that part. because who you're swimming with makes a difference, as we talked about. And I just don't think I was prepared to shift the culture of the team that I came from and then go into a new culture. It was very difficult for me to kind of adjust to that.
>> Mike Huber: Okay, but what what do you think you could have done to prepare for that? Or could you? I mean, is it something you just have to learn how to deal with when you get there?
>> Natalie Heim: Because I guess you could say that's something you learn how to deal with when you get there. and I think if someone would have kind of, I don't know, warned us about it, but I guess I should have expected it because we see who's coming in, we see who's on the team. but I feel like when you just grow up with the same people and you swim with the same people your whole life, you don't really think about stuff like that, how different it would be if you adjusted it. So.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah, but like, you know, I think it's, it's a lot easier to like, think about that retrospectively. Right. When you're going into college in most cases. I mean, not everybody's this way, but I'd say by and large you, you're really excited about what's to come.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: You're focused on the good things that are coming with it. And that's sort of like where I like focus my attention, which is like, yeah, like we go into something new and this is really exciting. I've been working for this for however many years and now I finally have gotten. And I'm going to go to college to swim. That's great. But we're not really preparing for like, what could go wrong, what's going to be hard. We're thinking about all the good stuff now we get there and like all the good stuff that we imagined maybe not happen may not happen, at least right away. And now it's like, okay, well now how do I shift my focus to how do I solve these problems when I wasn't thinking about it? Right. It's not because you couldn't have prepared for it, just you didn't know to. You weren't aware.
>> Natalie Heim: And I think leading off of that part, I think something else that I would have liked to know or have kind of been guided to before going to college was asking for help and seeking out resources and all that. Because everyone says, like, they all tell you to do that. But I feel like as an athlete, you grow up kind of being told, suck it up and don't, don't you know, be worried about that and you're fine, don't like you'll be fine. And I feel like I didn't. Going into college, I felt weak, definitely asking for any sort of help, whether it was mental health or with our trainers, because you don't want everyone to look at you and be like, she's got a problem. Yeah. So I don't think I felt comfortable asking for that. And I don't think the resources were highlighted as well. because in high school, our parents did everything for us, at least for me, Middle, school. So I always had them to kind of help me get there. And then when I got to doing it myself, I wasn't very confident in reaching out.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah. I mean, that kind of highlights a couple of things for me is, one is like, you know, I think most people are that way, regardless of whether you're an athlete or not. I think first of all, I think second of all, like, we have to learn the hard way sometimes. Like, it's not until we're really motivated to look for help because we really want to solve a problem. Like, with what you went through mental health wise. Like. Like, you're at a point where, like, I can't do this on my own. I had that some same experience myself. Right. Like, when I got to a point where I, like, this is so uncomfortable and so, unsettling and scary. Like, I can't do this by myself. Like, okay, now I'm motivated to go ask for help. But up until that point, it was like, no, I'll figure it out on my own.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: Because it wasn't. There wasn't an urgency, at least in my mind, versus, like, well, if I just had this off at the pass and do it proactively, then I don't have to get to the point where I'm, like, so desperate for help that I have to go looking for it.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah. Yeah. And I had a coach growing up who. I loved him, but he. He would kind of not even let you miss practice even if you were, like, hurt. So you kind of. I internalize that feeling of being weak if you had any sort of problem and, well, you can get through it. If you are still hurt, you can still do it, you can still show up.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah.
>> Natalie Heim: And so that kind of was not very effective in helping me ask for help that I needed.
>> Mike Huber: Absolutely. Yeah. We learned that. Right? And I think a lot of us learn that, like, hey, suck it up. Like, you gotta play hurt because you're okay and I need you to win. And you, you know, that's just what we do to be tough. And that's a really, like, fine line to walk.
>> Natalie Heim: Yeah.
>> Mike Huber: It's like a tightrope. It's like, well, yeah, you want to fight through and be tough and support my team and keep going. But at the same time, if it's going to do that long term damage and threaten my safety and my health, like, do I really need to do this? Like, yeah, can I step away? And that's really hard to like, square that circle, especially when you're a teenager going to college.
>> Natalie Heim: It is.
>> Mike Huber: as I. So as we get ready to wrap up, the last question I'll ask you, and I ask this question a lot is like, if you had one piece of advice, if you have not had, if you have one piece of advice to share with high, school athletes, particularly who are going to go on to compete in college, like, what would you, what would you say?
>> Natalie Heim: I think something that I needed to learn way earlier than I did was kind of give yourself grace because it's not going to be an easy process. You're going to hit a lot of bumps on the way there and you're not going to know exactly what to do at every point because nobody gives you a handbook and says, here, read this, you'll know what to do. so I think I didn't allow myself to give, like myself grace, which was, would have been really helpful because it's just a lot of times we're very hard on ourselves, especially as athletes, and we kind of need that moment to say, okay, we're doing the best we can, we're trying and we're going to get there. We just have to put in some extra work to get there.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah, a great way to end. Natalie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
>> Natalie Heim: Thank you for having me.
>> Mike Huber: Yeah, it was a pleasure. So what is your biggest takeaway? From my conversation with Natalie Haim, My biggest takeaway is that the road to athletic success is really straight and smooth. The ability to succeed requires actively seeking out help and developing the resilience to withstand adversity. I want to thank Natalie for joining me on the podcast and wish her luck during the 202425 school year. To learn how mental performance coaching can help young athletes become confident problem solvers in sport and Life, visit michael vhuber.com thank you for listening. We'll see you back soon for episode 77.
>> Michael Hubert: Mike Huber is the founder and owner of Follow the Ball Coaching, located in Fairhaven, New Jersey. He is a mental performance coach and business advisor dedicated to serving athletes just like you reach their full potential on and off the court. The Freshman foundation is all about helping you, get to the next level. For more information, follow along on instagram hefreshmanfoundation Please subscribe. Give us a like on itunes Spotify, leave a review, tell a friend. Most importantly, come back in two weeks ready to get better.